Meeting with Payette Forest Leadership
On Monday April 22, 2024, the Adams County Commissioners met for their second meeting of the month. They started out the day with an executive session to consult with Prosecuting Attorney Chris Boyd, and Nancy Gehan. After this, Adam Balderson, with Road and Bridge, arrived with quotes for mag chloride for Goodrich Rd. It will be about the same as it was last year. The commissioners also wanted to do mag chloride on Pine Ridge towards Lost Valley Reservoir, and asked him to see how much it would be to add that. Commissioner Daren Ward asked if the road was good enough to continue with it past the landfill, he would like to look into going further with it since there are a lot of people out there and new developments going in “I’m not sure if the budget will allow it, I would sure like to see us work our way further out,” said Ward. Balderson and the other commissioners mentioned that if they start doing that there are a lot of other places that people are going to want it, and they can’t really do them all. The commissioners approved the paving contracts for Missman and Council Cuprum Rd and confirmed to Balderson they can start those when they are ready.
Sheriff Ryan Zollman said there are 23 state inmates and 4 county. Zollman asked if they can put up some concrete barriers in front of an entryway to the sheriff’s department where the snow slides in during the winter. Commissioner Ward said there is a concrete company in Fruitland that has them for an affordable price. Zollman said he would measure the space. He’ll need Road and Bridge’s help to get them up and would like to get it done before fall this year.
Building inspector, Kody Williams, had an updated draft of a resolution for the commissioners, changing some of the fees and requirements for building permits. As per their discussion on ag exemptions, he wants to use an application form for ag buildings to ensure that setbacks are being met and so they have some documentation that they are ag exempt. He had a form that he has already been using but hasn’t been charging for yet, he would like to update it to a $50 fee to pay for everyone’s time, and wanted the commissioners feedback. After looking it over, Commissioner Joe Iveson said they should go higher on the mobile homes since they always end up being such a hassle. Williams said he ends up doing one to three inspections on those usually. The Commissioners asked what it actually costs to send him out somewhere each time. Williams said he would figure that out. He also said he keeps running into prefab buildings that are over 200 sq ft such as metal garages or carports that go up in a day, hickory sheds, or shipping containers. Right now he is supposed to charge a normal building permit and fee for those, but he doesn’t like that and thinks they should have a separate category for things like that. There aren’t really any inspections he has to do for those. “I don’t think that everything should have a building permit, it does not make sense,” said Williams. The commissioners agreed simplifying things like that and reducing costs made sense. Iveson said he hates regulating things. Ward asked if other counties do something similar with pre fab buildings? Williams said yes, Valley County, for example, does. Another option would be to amend the building code, or to call them temporary structures. Iveson asked about Conex’s. Williams said technically they are supposed to have a permit for that right now, and he doesn’t think that makes sense. The assessor currently taxes them. He joked that the commissioners should be proud of him, that this is the first time he’s come in and wanted to loosen regulations. Iveson said let’s amend the regulation so that premade buildings do not require a permit and they can use more common sense with those, but still have the application so they can make sure they still adhere to setbacks, which will be especially important in town. They will still have to hold a public hearing and the mobile homes are currently an ordinance, so it will take longer to get that in place once they decide what to do.
After this there was a meeting with Payette National Forest Supervisor, Linda Jackson. Several other Forest Service representatives were also present, including Deputy Supervisor Kevin Knesek, New Meadows District Ranger Dana Harris, Council and Weiser District Ranger Jeff Jones, and Kara Kirkpatrick. Idaho State Senator Cindy Carlson also was present, as was Federal policy and Land Management consultant Nancy Gehan and Larry Jackson via Zoom, and County Prosecuting Attorney Chris Boyd.
Jackson said she wasn’t sure what to prepare for this meeting, so she brought a few different people with her. Dana Harris said she had an update on Secure Rural Schools. Boyd said he would love an update and they have questions about that. Harris said she would love to set up regular quarterly meetings for updates. Commissioner Viki Purdy thought that during the summer months they should come every month so they can have regular updates on the forest and burning. Commissioner Ward agreed that he would love to have a standing monthly meeting and they can cancel it if there is nothing to talk about.
Jackson said counties either elect to do Secure Rural Schools or 25% of timber sales, and this county has elected to do the Secure Rural Schools (SRS), which gives them more money. If they wanted to go back to the 25% it is based on the acreage of your county in relation to the acreage of the Forest, not how much is actually logged in the county. There is a possibility the SRS might be eliminated by congress as well and if that happens it would revert to the 25% fund, which is based on timber sales. Boyd asked what the planned timber sale, volume, and what is predicted for this year. Jackson said that information was provided in their last letter. Boyd also wanted to know if they got the data on the grazing permits and allotments that they asked for. Linda said the Krassel Ranger District doesn’t have any grazing but that is completely in Valley County. The numbers provided in the letter are for the total forest. She didn’t have all the numbers in front of her, Harris thought there were nine sheep allotments in the central zone and five cattle allotments on New Meadows. Some of those allotments have multiple permittees. Jackson said she would get them the exact numbers and allotments.
Next they turned the discussion to ASQ or Allowable Sale Quantity. The Forest Service representatives explained that the ASQ is a planning number, it is the maximum that the Forest can produce. They take the acreage and they figure out what is available for timber production in general, not taking into account wildlife or recreation or anything else. Then they look at those things they need to subtract out, then they work with loggers to figure out what the actual ability to log is. There is not an expectation that they produce the ASQ on a regular basis. The Payette’s current ASQ is 32.5 Million Board Feet.
Nancy Gehan wanted clarification on the difference in requirements for loggers vs. prescribed fire. For example, one project was in Idaho Red Squirrel habitat, and the logger had to consult with a biologist before, during, and after logging. Gehan wondered why one program has to meet such stringent requirements while the other does not? Jackson said that both have to go through the process of consultation and analysis. If they determine there is not going to be an effect it doesn’t have to go on to Fish and Wildlife. With the squirrel, they have a certain period of time where they have to limit activities within their habitat. Fire cannot happen at all during those time periods. For logging, however, they sometimes have the biologist go out to flag certain areas so they can continue logging even during those times, just avoiding those areas. Commissioner Purdy asked if anyone had actually seen the squirrels and when exactly they were out. Jeff Jones replied that they were out from spring through August. Jackson said there are a limited population of them. Purdy found it somewhat incredulous that they have only been found in the entire world in Adams County. Jones said there is another squirrel that is similar found in the Owyhees, but it is a slightly different one.
Prosecutor Boyd asked about categorical exclusions for burning. Jackson said there is some misunderstanding about that, but the big burns have not been under categorical exclusions. Jeff Jones said that some burning is done under the categorical exclusion though. Boyd asked how they can have a finding of “no significant impact” on the burning for both wildlife and the human impact? Kirkpatrick said any action that has an impact has to have a consultation if it is going to have an impact on an endangered or threatened species. If there was no consultation it is because it was not supposed to affect threatened or endangered species.
Boyd asked how burning 1.3 mil acres can have “No significant impact.” He asked if they could help him understand that finding. They answered that they are limited to 45k acres per year on the Forest. In the past five years Payette has burned around 80k acres. So after looking at that they were able to come to the finding of no significant impact.
Boyd asked if they did this in reverse, and if they did that amount of logging instead of burning, would there be problems from other agencies with those numbers and those findings? It seems like the conservation groups would come in and sue on that finding. He thought that seemed rather one sided. He said when we’re hearing that 2000 acres got logged, and 45,000 were burned, why is it that we are so stringent on applying these standards on logging but not on fire. “Am I wrong to think that?” asked Boyd.
Jackson said in terms of reducing fuels for fire they are not looking at one tool, they use grazing, non commercial thinning, timber harvest, and prescribed fire. So it’s never going to be focused on just one thing. In terms of why aren’t we doing more timber harvest? And would we not have to burn as much if we did more timber harvest? And about litigation? That is not a conversation that they have had. They have been doing the timber at the speed they can get the NEPA done. All the things they have to do are time consuming. “It’s quite onerous and it takes us quite a while,” said Jackson. She also said they work closely with the timber companies and try to keep their numbers fairly constant so that they know that they will get approximately the same amount of timber every year, so they don’t have a ton one year and none the next.
Purdy asked if the Forest has ever been sued by environmental groups for burning. Jackson said the Forest Service has, but not the Payette National Forest. Nancy Gehan asked if they offer a public list of the sales made and where that would be? Jackson said it’s all public information, but she’s not sure where it is. Gehan asked for clarification on commercial and noncommercial logging. Jeff Jones said noncommercial is products that there is not currently a market for. Products that are under 8 inches in diameter fall under noncommercial, and that there are a lot of noncommercial areas on the forest
Then there was some discussion about the 2012 planning rule that says they need to conduct forest monitoring. They have not put out a monitoring report since before the pandemic due to staffing issues. They are actively working on it right now and it will cover the past four years. It will probably be available in early 2025. Usually they do one every two years. Jackson said they are quite aware they are behind and are prioritizing it.
Commissioner Purdy was wondering about data on how smoke from prescribed burning affects people and wildlife and how they can have a finding of “no significant impact” on smoke. Jackson and Kirkpatrick explained that the Department of Environmental Quality (DEQ) and the Montana Idaho Airshed monitors that and tells them whether or not they can burn and how many acres. They will often decide not to burn even when they have received the greenlight based on conditions. One thing they do on the Payette is have conversations with each district every morning to decide together who should burn or not and whether it is going to be too much smoke. Purdy wanted to confirm for the record that the only place they have monitoring equipment is in McCall? If there is no monitoring equipment in New Meadows or Council how do they know how it is affecting the people? Jackson said she was right, it’s not a perfect science or a perfect situation. They have recently bought some more equipment to help with monitoring. Also the equipment in McCall is not the Payette’s, it is DEQ’s.
Prosecutor Boyd asked if the Forest Service uses AI to generate reports and if they would tell us if they did? He said the world is changing fast, and BLM is using AI for some of their reports. Linda Jackson said they have not used AI to generate any reports and they have not had any talk of doing that. Boyd and Gehan mentioned they were asking that because they received a 200 page report on the Granite Goose documents on Jan. 5th, right after Christmas Break, and were wondering about it. Jackson said that report was prepared before the holidays but she purposely held it until after the holidays. It took months to put together. She agreed that the documents are a lot to read through and she doesn’t want to belittle that fact.
Then they talked about different types of NEPA documentation and public comment requirements. Jackson said they might be defining public involvement differently. The types of public involvement may include sending out information, putting it in the paper, or sometimes holding a public meeting or open house. All of those are part of public scoping. They are required to do some sort of public involvement. The minimum is usually a 30 day period where it is visible, then another 30 day comment period. Anyone can comment and provide input on those documents, they are absolutely required to do those, and they can do more if they choose.
Commissioner Iveson asked if they have a controlled burn that gets away if they can salvage it. They said yes, they usually ask the logging companies if they are interested first though before going through the process. Senator Cindy Carlson asked if they have a prescribed burn area, if they would consider logging before they burn it? They said yes, absolutely that they do and it is fairly normal. Commissioner Purdy said they would prefer that as well, it’s not required but they would prefer it. Gehan wanted to know if they have any recent examples of that and if they evaluate after the event if it goes wrong. Jackson said yes, they do an after action review at the end of every day and they go over mitigating those sorts of effects. She also said if you see a prescribed fire and there are some dead trees, that is sometimes intentional. Purdy said the biggest problem they are having is that the policy has changed so much, that they have roads being shut down, people can’t go out into the Forest. Purdy also said that if they can make a commitment that when they burn someone’s allotment that they can make a commitment to give them something else that would be great. Jackson said they have never reduced allotments because of prescribed fires, they have taken them off for wildfire when there has been a lot of damage. She disagreed about the number of roads that have been shut down and said she would provide better data on that.
Linda Jackson will be retiring from her role as Forest Supervisor of the Payette National Forest shortly. Her replacement has not been announced. Kevin Knesek will be acting Forest Supervisor until the new person is decided upon.
